ROBOTIC CYSTECTOMY

16 years 7 months ago #8269 by mznoregrets
Replied by mznoregrets on topic ROBOTIC CYSTECTOMY
Hi Wendy and Pat and all,

Please do not think I am trying to be difficult here, I just am confused by the last few posts and what I thought I had an understanding of in regaurds to the Da Vinci...
My procedure was done at Mayo's with the DaVinci - and it wasn't presented in a fashion of "qualifying" for having an excellant prognosis. Dr Micheal Blute was my surgeon - he has been doing neobladders on women for quite some time. I would find it very hard to believe that this procedure was not available by him 4 years ago. I do intend to find out for sure when I go for recheck on Oct 8. I will post what I learn.
Also I would like to ask where the stats are showing worse survival for DaVinci. I have not seen these and it does conflict with information I was given prior to surgery. Again - I will also address this at Mayo's and share what I learn.
Again, please know that I am questioning as my understanding doesn't agree. I merely want to be sure of what I know and how it has/could impact me.
God Bless us all, Holly

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

16 years 7 months ago #8268 by skypilot
Replied by skypilot on topic ROBOTIC CYSTECTOMY
I have done some research on this. I have a friend that had it done 5 years ago . I think one of the first. It was done at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit by Dr Menion and another surgeon as a team. One does the removal and one builds the Neo. He has done so well normal sexialy. His surgery was longer than convetional I think 9 hours. His recovery time was much shorter and hardly any pain meds.I was going to have mine done this way but insurance at the time would not pay and said it was concidered experamental. This was July of 06. I went for interferon and so far have dodged the bullit on surgery. So for 9 months I have been clear till last Monday. I will post on that later. If I need to have it done I would only have it done by robotics. Don

Hanging in there!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

16 years 7 months ago #8266 by wendy
Replied by wendy on topic ROBOTIC CYSTECTOMY
About robots and laparoscopic cystectomies...I agree with Dan that it's not quite ready for prime time. The stats coming in are showing worse survival even though the candidates are hand picked for having excellent prognoses. The robotic technique is coming off better than the laparoscopic technique, but I'm not convinced that either technique is an advancement yet.

They still need to make a large incision, it takes just as long on the O.R. table (pat's doctor excepted).

Shorter hospital stays, less blood loss and less pain post-op is the only proven benefit at this time.
Wendy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

16 years 7 months ago #8259 by Patricia
Replied by Patricia on topic ROBOTIC CYSTECTOMY
Well supporting data is not going to exist since #1 the DaVinci is only being used by a few for cystectomy....and #2 there was at the time of my laproscopic cystectomy only one surgeon doing it in the world and he happens to be also the head of the Transplant division at the Cleveland Clinic...i doubt that there are many out there doing it today..it requires amazing surgical skills. The conventional surgeon whether it be in urology or cardiology or whatever division is going to poo pooh the laproscopic surgeon and the DaVinci surgeon...they don't like one another for obvious reasons.
With the large screen available to the laproscopic or DaVinci surgeon they have an amazing view which the human eye cannot see with the same clarity.
Just my opinion and i have the utmost respect for Dr. Stein.
Pat

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

16 years 7 months ago #8256 by dmartin12358
Replied by dmartin12358 on topic ROBOTIC CYSTECTOMY
The article is interesting but comes across as a promotional piece (e.g. isn't technology wonderful!).

One thing this article fails to mention is that there are several studies showing that for patients with muscle-invasive blc (and that's if the patient/surgeon know this for sure BEFORE surgery - keep in mind that cancer is upstaged quite often and that what is thought to be superficial cancer often turns out to be muscle and/or lymph node invasive AFTER surgery), oncologic outcomes are better when extended lymph node removal is done. 25 nodes removed may be better than 5, or 35 vs 25 or 65 vs 35. By selectively omitting such important information, it seems to me that that this cancer center is trying to increase patient volume to cover the considerable overhead associated with the purchase of their "state of the art miracle" machine.

Instead, today, I'd feel much more comfortable choosing the surgeon over Da Robot (and I don't mean to minimize the benefits of technology). But especially if one has muscle-invasive blc, go with a top surgeon who remove lots of lymph nodes rather than focus on shorter time on the operating table...

Also, why the scare tactics when comparing laparaoscopie to open surgery (e.g. loss of five times the blood, greater chance of infection and incontinence and impotence...). The statistics quoted by the author of the article may be all too real for some, but I don't believe they are representative of the top surgeons at the top institutions. None of this happened to me - plus I had nerve sparing surgery and (to my relief), it worked (no pills/shots needed...).



Here's what Dr. Stein has to say about laparaoscopic RC:

PURPOSE OF REVIEW: Radical cystectomy with an appropriate lymph node dissection... is the standard treatment for muscle-invasive transitional cell carcinoma... Optimal outcomes following radical cystectomy require an extended lymph node dissection, negative surgical margins... There has been an increasing number of reports describing initial experiences with laparoscopic radical cystectomy.

RECENT FINDINGS: Intermediate and long-term oncologic outcomes with laparoscopic radical cystectomy remain undefined, and appropriate lymph node dissections laparoscopically have not been uniformly performed. Furthermore, the long-term functional outcomes associated with laparoscopically performed urinary diversions also remain undefined. There appears to be a recent trend toward performing the urinary diversion portion of the procedure extracorporeally, after laparoscopic removal of the bladder. Some studies suggest a decrease in postoperative analgesic requirements and quicker recovery of bowel function in those undergoing laparoscopic radical cystectomy, but these observations have not been corroborated by others.

SUMMARY: In the absence of long-term functional and oncologic outcome data, laparoscopic RC should be considered an investigative technique, and potential candidates for this operation should be appropriately counseled.



His summary is prudent and reasonable. It's great to use laparaoscopic surgery, one's results may be great, it may be one's best option given the choice of doctors... it's just that all of the supporting data does not yet exist.

Dx 7/04, CIS + T1G3, Age 50
2 TURBTs
12 BCGs
Cystectomy 8/05 USC/Norris
So far, so good (kow)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

16 years 7 months ago #8253 by Mike
Replied by Mike on topic ROBOTIC CYSTECTOMY
I think I agree with Zach on this one something more common down the road, but I don't see it being common for us here baby boomers oh well at least we have the opt for the regular surgery. I was thinking back in my hippie days early 70's you wouldn't even think about surviving bladder cancer so things have come a long way. Joe ;)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: Cynthiaeddieksara.anne