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B17/Laetrile

8 years 7 months ago - 8 years 7 months ago #39120 by Cynthia
Horace,

I have been reading every piece of research that has came across my desk for many years. For someone that does not have a background in reading such things it is easy to walk away thinking you understand what you are reading but not so much. At times research is conflicting and confusing and if you don’t like one conclusion wait for the next seems to be the way of things. There are conspiracy theories, one for every entity that can make money from cancer. Added to that for every alternative therapy there are many antidotal reports of their success if not research to back it up. And on top of that it is estimated that ten present of all websites are scams of some type, do a search on Google for cancer and do the math it is scary. The truth of the matter is that the only information that we should be paying attention to is what is very specific to our own diagnosis if not it is possibly damaging or useless to our own situation. The internet has been both a blessing and a curse for those diagnosed with cancer.

Most that have replied feel that it is ill advised to do any unproven alternate therapy as ones only treatment option. We have thousands of survivors here and not one has come forward to say they personally have had success with B17/Laetrile does that fact not give you pause for thought? I could understand your stance of standard treatment if the survival rates were not so high for your for you situation with thier use. Yes this is your decision and I honor that but I would ask you to consider the following as you do your research.

What was the pathology of the people involved? Was theirs high grade? Was it bladder cancer? Are you comparing apples to oranges not all cancers have the same path or potential?

You talk of the misery of other cancer survivors and the hard road they travel with treatment. That is true my family and I have been through a lot to get to the other side of this and would do it again to be where I am today. The true suffering is by families and those with bladder cancer who are losing the battle with no hope of a cure. It breaks my heart to see someone die that didn't have to because they were afraid of treatment for they did not die of cancer but of fear.

No one is saying that you should not pursue alternative therapies but why would you not also take advantage of proven treatment? I could understand your stance if the survival rates were not so high for your situation with standard treatment. All we are saying here is to not put all of your eggs in one basket.

Know that I wish you well.

Cynthia Kinsella
T2 g3 CIS 8/04
Clinical Trial
Chemotherapy & Radiation 10/04-12/04
Chemotherapy 3/05-5/05
BCG 9/05-1-06
RC w/umbilical Indiana pouch 5/06
Left Nephrectomy 1/09
President American Bladder Cancer Society

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8 years 7 months ago - 8 years 7 months ago #39116 by horace
Cynthia,

I have been pondering for the last few days whether I would respond to your post or not and if I did, what I would say.

I started this thread to see if anyone in here had personal experience with B17. I was looking for reasons to continue or not my taking of apricot kernels. In the end, it devolved into a quick and dirty debate on the efficacy and toxicity of the B17 therapy – I feel this discussion was a little one sided and that B17 therapy was mispresented –mainly because I decided to hold back, not wanting to go down the inevitable road to acrimony - however, I have decided to put the other side.

I want to make it clear that I do not recommend people take on B17. I do recommend, however, that people look at both sides and make their own minds up. I also want to make it clear that I do not recommend people ignore the therapies offered by conventional medicine. That is something for each individual to decide.

I am driven to do this because I know how I feel about my having cancer, how it has affected my family. I have also seen the suffering and fear of others who have cancer and the fear and suffering of their loved ones. Reading various posts in this forum I see how people lay in fear and at a loss when all turns to the worse. For me, any hope that can be found in any place is worth the effort. Of course, some will say this is no better than false hope – again something for each individual to ponder.

Firstly, I want to present some testimonials that I have found on the web. Yes, many of these are found on vendor sites, so you do not see any about how B17 failed. Also, you have to believe these testimonies are real and not fabricated – many have names, addresses, phone numbers – I leave it to those reading them to make up their own minds about their authenticity.

Here they are:

http://www.ultimatenutrition.com.au/testimonies.htm

http://www.1cure4allcancer.com/testimonies.html

http://www.worldwithoutcancer.org.uk/success.html

http://www.credence.org/testimon.html

http://www.b17.com.au/testimon/testimpage1.htm

http://www.anticancerinfo.co.uk/kernel_of_hope.html

http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1420766#i

http://www.apricotsfromgod.info/testimony.htm


Phillip Day’s book “A world without cancer” also has many testimonials.


If you made it thru that lot, you may want to read what conventional medicine says – a place to find the contrary case (also see Mike’s links above) is at the National Cancer Institute:

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/laetrile/HealthProfessional/page5

See also the links to abstracts of various medical papers at the bottom of the NCI page.


I believe a sober view of the efficacy of B17 based on one physician’s clinical experience can be found in chapters 12, 13 and 14 of Binzel’s book “Alive and Well”:

http://www.czlonkamediagroup.com/files/alivewellbook.pdf


I will leave it to those interested to follow up with their own searches of how the therapy works and is to be supplemented (Binzel’s book is a good start).


Cynthia, I agree with everything you have said in your last post. However, in my last post, I was trying to make the point that conventional medicine does not necessarily have all the answers. I cannot understand why people with cancer would not look at every possible way it could be defeated or contained. Additionally, the use of one type of therapy need not exclude the use of the other.

For myself, I have radically altered my diet, I am taking apricot kernels and am looking at various supplements. I also meditate. How I approach the conventional therapies, I have not yet resolved for myself. (Just so you know, I have consulted a second urologist and an oncologist along with several physicians.)

I have posted the above with some trepidation. Whatever path I choose to take is my business – I will take responsibility for the consequences. However, I am concerned, that in my posting the above, that people take a path that might be to their detriment. There is no way for me to resolve this. Looking at the high number of thread views, there is a lot of interest in what has been discussed – this has helped to encourage me to post the above. I offer the above in the hope it might clarify for people some of the choices that are available.


I wish you and the other members of this forum, all the best.

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8 years 7 months ago #39095 by Cynthia
Horace, You need to take into account that there are over 600 different types of cancer. They each have their own paths and there is a big differnce in treatment and outcomes. Brain Cancer while a cancer is not bladder cancer. Each person even with brain cancer can have a different diognoisis depending on the type of cell, placement of tumor and on and on. Do not try to compare apples to oranges here when you are compareing your cancer to your friends brain cancer it is not the same. I can find you all kinds of horror stories on the web about any subject you want to name but that does not make them typical. People come here in a panic but as they do well they go on to other things so you tend to hear from people that have a problem not the good stories. I have seen people that had such a fear of cancer treatment that they died of the disease I am sure if they were given another chance they would chose the treatment but unfortunately for them they did not get a second chance. Concentrate you your own situation you can not compare it to anyone elses.

Cynthia Kinsella
T2 g3 CIS 8/04
Clinical Trial
Chemotherapy & Radiation 10/04-12/04
Chemotherapy 3/05-5/05
BCG 9/05-1-06
RC w/umbilical Indiana pouch 5/06
Left Nephrectomy 1/09
President American Bladder Cancer Society

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8 years 7 months ago #39091 by horace
Hi Cynthia,

Thank you very much for your thoughtful post.

I know people want the best for each other here - I do appreciate that.

Yesterday I lost a very good friend to brain cancer. He went the conventional surgery, chemotherapy and radiotherapy route.

I have another friend who has a serious lymphoma and he recently completed radiotherapy on a diseased prostrate and is waiting for 6 weeks to elapse after which blood tests will be taken to see how his prostrate cancer has faired. He now has a bad incontinence problem and is depressed.

There are many things to consider and I will consider closely what you have said.

Cheers.

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8 years 7 months ago - 8 years 7 months ago #39086 by Cynthia
Horace,

This forum was founded to provide peer support and to help us become better medical consumers in order to survive this disease and not only survive but to prosper. The group here knows what a hideous disease bladder cancer is and what heartbreak it is if it gets outside your bladder and into other organs. And what you are proposing as your only treatment is one that is at the least controversial and one that certainly shows no evidence that it is the best treatment. I can show you strong research that says broccoli can be of use in preventing bladder cancer. But I would not want to see anyone I cared about who knew as a fact that they have high grade bladder cancer only eat broccoli as treatment, eating it with the treatment that was recommended by the AUA might be a wise way to go. You have high grade TCC from what I am reading that has not had a second TURB as recommended by some pretty good minds in bladder cancer. You are potentially playing with fire here, T1 could be upgraded following a second pathology report or it could be downgraded. But as it stands you have a high grade cancer that is near being invasive from the pathology report you have now. If I was a betting person I would want to have the deck stacked in my favor if I were you. Know what you are dealing with and make sure you have the treatment with the highest odds of giving you a good outcome. A second opinion with someone who is an expert in bladder cancer is strongly advised in cases such as yours.

Many people here have had the treatments you are talking about such as BCG they can be side effects but the research shows it saves many more than it ever present with the worst of the side effects, you weigh cause and effect. The vast majorities who have BCG that have side effects have ones that are mild to moderate that can be treated. I have had BCG, Chemo, and radiation and only have a kidney and a ureter left from my native urinary tract. I have had to look at all of these things and the possible side effects. I am here seven years later living a wonderful life; would I have survived if I had not done what was shown to give me the highest odds of survival? Is it possible yes but not probable and this is about survival so make sure what you chose to do puts the odds on your side. I can show you experts that do not agree on what the research you are reading means but the bottom line is the numbers show that for bladder cancer if treated with conventional methods and not allowed to metastasize has good survival statistics.

If you want to debate the self treatment of cancer I am sure there are websites out there with people that will tell you what you want to hear. If you are looking for information on what has worked for others by the thousands and people that have been there and care this would be a great site for you. We will support you and be happy to have you as a part of our community, just because someone does not agree with you does not mean they do not welcome you. But you have to know that for some that have been dealing with bladder cancer for years that what you are proposing is very dangerous and they know personally all too well know how disastrous it can be if you do not get the right treatment. And they know if you are wrong that there will be not take backs here once this is out of the box you cannot usually put it back again. They feel as if they are watching you walk in front of a car and they are scared for you it is just caring it is just that simple.

Keep us informed on your progress we are here.

Cynthia Kinsella
T2 g3 CIS 8/04
Clinical Trial
Chemotherapy & Radiation 10/04-12/04
Chemotherapy 3/05-5/05
BCG 9/05-1-06
RC w/umbilical Indiana pouch 5/06
Left Nephrectomy 1/09
President American Bladder Cancer Society

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8 years 7 months ago #39085 by dieseldoc
Horace
Mike told you this stuff is bad, he showed you its bad. Yet you keep defending it. Everyone here said it was bad. Our advice was to get clinical help. If we are a bunch of idiots than prove us wrong in 10 years. If we are wright than you won't make it 5 years. The odds of you not making it are a hole hell of a lot greater than you making it!!!!!!


See ya I'm done with this!

T1,NO,MO battling bladder cancer since 2005

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