Confused--Cysto found Papillary Tumors but Cyto Negative...

David,

Here is a very good discussion that the forum had earlier this year about possible enhancement/usage of Mitomycin C. This is for information purposes only of course...

[ftp=ftp://http://blcforum.com/smf/index.php/topic,706.msg4904.html#msg4904]blcforum.com/smf/index.php/topic,706.msg4904.html#msg4904[/ftp]

You may have to copy and paste, there seems to be an internal problem with the link...

Anyway, it talks about a possible alkaline enhancement when using Mitomycin C...

Buds,
Rosemary

Good Morning David: So glad all went well with your TURBT and mini TURP...and it appears the week wait for the pathology reports will be the worse. Can't help with the question regarding mini TURP but one of the guys here more than likely can. Keep us posted on the reports and we are all pulling for you. Take care BC friend,

Sandra

I had my TURBT this morning. The doc also used Mytomicin C and he did a resection of a portion of the prostate which was encroaching in the area of the urethra -- he referred to it as a "mini TURP". First I'd heard of this being done in conjunction with a TURBT -- anyone had a similar experience? Anyway, he also removed several papillary tumors and took a tissue sample of both the prostate and a tumor near the ureter. Since the cyto a couple of weeks ago was negative we don't expect any CIS but it can't be totally ruled out until we get the path report next week. Fingers crossed but optomistic.

David

Sandra,
Thanks for the information on the reliability and methodology of cytology. That does help explain why it is sometimes unreliable. I've never had the FISH test. I does sound like our experiences are quite similar and of course I'm hoping that what they find next Friday is in fact a few low grade papillary tumors and more of the dysplasia.
I had a nice Thanksgiving in Austin, TX visiting with my in laws. Too much food, though. Enjoy your holiday weekend.
David

Hi David: Hope your Thanksgiving was wonderful.

here's what I have experienced with Cytology and FISH-

11/06 4 tumors - TURBT = TAG3 - Cytology and FISH done before Cysto = Negative

1/07 2 tumors - TURBT = TAG3 - Cytology and FISH done before Cysto = Negative

4/07 - Clean Cysto - Cytology and FISH done before Cysto - Negative

7/07 - Clean Cysto - Cytology and FISH done before Cysto - Negative

10/07 - 1 tumor - TURBT = Bladder irritation (not malignant) - Cytology and FISH done before Cysto = Positive for High Grade Urethelial Carcinoma

How this was explained to me was that if there is not cancer cells in your urine thru cytology it could mean that your cancer cells are not sloughing. This can lead to a false negative. But cytology is also known for a good percentage of false positive and negatives - not an exact test.

FISH is the study of DNA of the cells, therefore has proven to be more reliable in most cases than cytology, but still not full proof.

Your TURBT and pathology will be your defining exactly what is there. Because you and I seem to be on the same path right now...let's hope that what the doc sees and removes comes back bladder dysplasia or irritation like mine. Again I am pulling for the best for you. Take care,

Sandra

Urine cytology is better at detecting high-grade than low-grade blc.

For example, one study showed "The sensitivity of urine cytology for pTa-1..., and pT2-pT4... tumors were 37.5%, and 90.9%,

Given this, your results make sense - it would not be unusual for the doc to see low-grade tumors while at the same time those tumors not being detected by urine cytology.